#1 Calories, #2 Macros, #3 Micros, #4 Nutrient Timing, #5 Supplements
This is the fourth chapter in my five-part guide on nutrition for fat loss and muscle growth. You can read the introduction (which gives important context) and download the full PDF version of the nutrition setup guide here.
Last Updated: 19th March 2020
In this chapter the key principles you will learn about nutrient timing are:
- Doing nothing stupid or extreme that could compromise the rest of your efforts,
- Optimizing things in a way that helps you adhere,
- Avoiding complicated strategies unless you need them for your sport.
It appeals to us that something as simple as changing the timing of things can have a potent effect.
People go mad for any shortcut, rather than actually putting in some effort. Marketers take advantage of this (flash a little bit of science while conveniently not talking about the bigger picture) to sell us on something new.
Getting the timing of things right most certainly has favorable effects on body composition, however, if you gloss over the most impactful, foundation levels of your nutrition plan (the calorie intake, macro composition, and micronutrition considerations) you are wasting your time, money and effort.
Consider the first three stages of the nutrition pyramid the foundation. Now we’re going to look at the fourth stage while trying to not get lost in the meaningless details. Here’s what we’ll cover:
- How Many Meals Should We Eat?
- When Should We Eat?
- Suggestions For When To Eat, Relative To When You Train
- Should You Try Intermittent Fasting?
- Refeeds, Calorie Cycling, Macro Cycling, and Cheat Days
- Example Calorie, Macro Cycling, and Refeed Calculations For Our Four Amigos
As with this series as a whole, this article is written in the order of importance that each addition will likely benefit you. The most important factor in all of this is that you adhere to your diet. So don’t do anything here that is too tiresome or complicated for you to sustain.
Meal Timing: HOW MANY MEALS SHOULD We EAT?
I suggest we eat the minimum number of meals that we can without compromising our goals unless your personal preference is for a higher number.
By eating fewer meals we simplify food preparation and macro counting. This improves adherence, which is key to success over the long-term.
Why I Recommend You Avoid Extreme Meal Frequencies
Eating one meal a day may be the simplest choice, but it is not going to be optimal for lean mass retention when dieting, nor muscle growth when bulking.
Further, as your stomach is of a limited size it will be very hard to get in the appropriate amount of fruit and vegetables for the day to meet your micronutrition and fiber needs, while still getting in enough calories in a single meal. Even if you feel good, I’d recommend you don’t do this.
The only time I would give people a pass on this is for obese individuals who find it the easiest way to lose weight and curb their cravings, as the health risks of carrying so much body fat outweigh the risks of short-term micronutrient deficiencies. It is not an optimal long-term strategy.
Eating 6+ meals a day is the old-school “bro-science” choice, which harks back to the days when we thought this may have been superior for muscle growth.
The only people I can see needing such a high meal frequency are athletes who train multiple times a day They have very high energy demands and may find their performance impaired when training on a full stomach. The higher frequency of meals will also help with faster glycogen replenishment between workouts, which is only of concern to this group.
Do not try to copy athletes — the young ones tend to pay little attention to their diets because they haven’t needed to yet, the older ones are drawn to the quacks of the industry as the reality of aging sets in and they start to look for an edge. People that call recreational trainees “athletes” are just tickling your ego. Which is fine, but just know the difference.
Meal Frequency Recommendations For Those Cutting and Bulking
For those cutting, it can be beneficial to have fewer meals because you can eat more at each meal. This is one of the benefits of skipping breakfast — enabling larger lunches and dinners.
The majority of my clients over the years skip breakfast when in a cutting phase and many choose to skip it when in a bulking phase. There is a caveat to this: for those who train fasted in the morning, I have them take a whey protein shake first to minimize the risk of muscle breakdown. (More details on this in the meal timing section.)
For those bulking, it can get to a point where it is not comfortable or practical to eat just two meals a day because of the volume of food that needs to be consumed. In this case, consider splitting your meals into three or four meals, or having liquid meals/snacks. Though there are likely no benefits to eating more than four meals a day, it is perfectly fine to do so if you wish.
There isn’t any definitive research showing that eating more than two meals a day is beneficial to lean mass preservation when in a dieting phase. (I certainly haven’t had any issue with clients either.)
There is research to suggest that eating more than twice may be more beneficial for muscle growth, but I can’t say I have noticed any differences in client groups on average, between those who continued to skip breakfast and those who didn’t.
I realize this can be nuanced, so I’ve tried to categorize the differences in the diagram below along with what I have observed.
You’ll notice that there are diminishing returns to increases in meal frequency which likely disappears by the fourth meal of the day. Whether you care enough about the incremental differences between 2 and 3 meals, and 3 and 4 meals, is something you have to decide for yourself.
Physique professionals may wish to opt for the higher end to maximize any potential benefits. Recreational trainees don’t need to complicate things this much.
Regardless of whether I’m cutting or bulking, I choose to eat two meals and have a morning shake before training. But I like to optimize my life for simplicity and don’t think the additional meal is worth the trade-off. You do you.
I’ll say again, I haven’t noticed any differences in outcome between clients who ate 2–4 meals. However, although this is a large sample size (1000+ clients over 9 years), probably 80% were cutting.
MEAL TIMING: When SHOULD We EAT?
Nutrient timing is not as important as we once thought it was. There are two fairly simple rules to follow when it comes to meal timing during the day. As long as you follow them, you should be totally fine.
1. Don’t train completely fasted
I myself, as well as many clients, prefer to train first thing in the morning without having eaten a meal prior. If you choose to do this also, make sure you have a whey shake 30–60 minutes before you start lifting heavy so that when your body seeks amino acids (the building blocks of protein), it takes them from your bloodstream rather than breaking muscle down to get them.
In my opinion, whey protein is better than EAA or BCAA supplementation in this scenario. It is fast-digesting (a good thing in this context) at a rate of 8–10 g per hour, therefore, if your first meal of the day is more than 3 hours after your first scoop was taken, take a second scoop. — You’ll see this in the first example below.
(I prefer to have 50 g of whey in the morning rather than splitting it into two shakes. This may be a fraction less optimal, but I don’t think it will make a meaningful difference.)
If you find yourself struggling to train with the same intensity you usually do, have 30–60 g of carbs with the shake. This can be as simple as eating a banana or two (or anything you find easy to digest).
Toward the end of a cut, when your liver and muscle glycogen stores are low, this could help you maintain training intensity.
Avoid fat as this could cause stomach upset.
Personally, I feel completely fine without this, but I want to state it here as an option.
2. Spread Your Meals evenly Across the day
If you eat twice per day, make that lunch and dinner, and roughly 7-9 hours apart. If you eat three times per day, make it breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
Feel free to eat a little less in one meal than the others (if you train in the early afternoon, you might want a light lunch so you don’t feel nauseous).
Don’t do anything weird like bunching all your meals in the space of a few hours.
3. Spread your macros evenly
As long as meals are evenly spaced, there is likely very little benefit to worrying about more specific protein or carbohydrate timing.
- You don’t need to slam a protein shake immediately after your workout because you will still have amino acids in your blood-stream breaking down from the meal consumed earlier.
- You don’t need to have carbs right before you train because your muscles will still have glycogen in them to fuel your training from meal(s) prior, or even the day prior. (Glycogen is like the fuel tank of a car — if you fill up the night before, it’ll still be in the tank even if you didn’t go for a drive.)
- You don’t need to have carbs immediately after you train. Yes, some research looking at muscle protein synthesis over the course of a day has hinted that this may be beneficial, but it just hasn’t panned out in longer time frame studies.
- Avoid skewing your fat, protein, or carb intake across the course of a day too heavily. You may still find some people saying that eating fats and avoiding carbs at the start of the day and vice versa at the end of the day is beneficial. There’s no evidence for that, it complicates things, and I’d be willing to bet that it’s a net negative.
NUTRIENT TIMING: When To Eat, Relative To When You Train
Here are some detailed meal timing examples of when to eat, relative to when you train. I’ll cover whether you may want to consider skipping breakfast in the next section.
Early Morning fasted training
This setup is the most popular with clients. They all have full-time jobs and most have families, so they choose this because it allows them to train before the rest of the day takes its toll. The key isn’t waking up early, it’s going to bed consistently earlier so that you can wake up early while still being rested.
| IF SKIPPING BREAKFAST | IF EATING BREAKFAST |
| 05:30 25 g whey (optional banana) | 05:30 25 g whey |
| 06:00 Training | 06:00 Training |
| 08:30 25 g whey | 07:00 Breakfast |
| 12:00 Lunch | 13:00 Lunch |
| 20:00 Dinner | 20:00 Dinner |
Mid-Morning Training
When I’m in a writing/creative phase, I wake early to work before any distractions, then hit the gym mid-morning. My preferred setup is the left column.
| IF SKIPPING BREAKFAST | IF EATING BREAKFAST |
| 08:30 25 g Whey | 07:00 Light Breakfast |
| 09:00 Training | 09:00 Training |
| 12:00 Lunch | 12:00 Lunch |
| 20:00 Dinner | 20:00 Dinner |
Lunchtime Training
This is popular with folks who can take a slightly longer lunch than the typical hour and have a gym close to their office (or in the same building). The key to success is often preparing lunch the night prior.
| IF SKIPPING BREAKFAST | IF EATING BREAKFAST |
| 11:30 25 g Whey | 07:00 Breakfast |
| 12:00 Training | 12:00 Training |
| 13:00 Lunch | 13:00 Lunch |
| 20:00 Dinner | 20:00 Dinner |
Early-Afternoon Training
Fewer clients do this, but it works equally well.
| IF SKIPPING BREAKFAST | IF EATING BREAKFAST |
| – | 07:00 Breakfast |
| 12:00 Light lunch | 12:00 Light lunch |
| 14:00 Training | 14:00 Training |
| ~15:30 25 g Whey & banana | ~15:30 25 g Whey & banana |
| 20:00 Dinner | 20:00 Dinner |
Evening Training
Training in the evening is completely fine, but if you find that stuff often comes up which prevents you from leaving work early to do it, consider training in the morning.
| IF SKIPPING BREAKFAST | IF EATING BREAKFAST |
| – | 07:00 Breakfast |
| 12:00 Lunch | 13:00 Lunch |
| ~17:00 Training | ~17:00 Training |
| 20:00 Dinner | 20:00 Dinner |
Late-Evening Training
This type of setup is best avoided if it impacts the duration or quality of sleep.
In this specific case, a slow-release protein shake like casein may be better than whey prior to bed. (A pre-prepared small chicken breast would do equally well if not better, and the banana is just an example of some quick and easy carbs.)
| IF SKIPPING BREAKFAST | IF EATING BREAKFAST |
| – | 07:00 Breakfast |
| 12:00 Lunch | 13:00 Lunch |
| 19:00 Light dinner | 19:00 Light dinner |
| ~21:00 Training | ~21:00 Training |
| 22:00 50 g Protein & banana | 22:00 50 g Protein & banana |
Some people find that carbs make them sleepy. Breakfast eaters that feel lethargic mid-morning should consider eating fewer calories from carbs, and more calories from fats at breakfast time, and reversing this at dinner. Breakfast skippers should do this but with lunch. As an added bonus, this may help you sleep better in the evening.
A small percentage of clients find that a large meal before bed disturbs their sleep. If this causes you to sweat or just otherwise feel uncomfortable, eat one or two hours earlier or reduce the calorie content of your evening meal.
The idea that eating before bed makes you fat is a myth.
Should you try intermittent fasting?
I do it, many of my industry friends do it, and many of my clients do it also. However, there are a few different types of intermittent fasting (I.F.), and they are not all created equal.
Alternate day fasting is where you eat one day then don’t eat the next. This is often advertised as “Don’t eat one day and then eat whatever you like!” This can cause rapid weight loss but it encourages binge-starve behavior cycles and I do not recommend it.
5-2 intermittent fasting involves two ~24 hour periods per week with no food. You just skip three consecutive meals, twice per week, but not on the same day so that you’re always eating something on any given day.
As consistent meal times can help with hunger regulation, I do not recommend 5-2 I.F. either.
16:8 intermittent fasting involves skipping one meal, typically breakfast, partially because this is the easiest to stick to as it has the least social consequences. It can help create the calorie deficit needed for fat loss by removing 1/3 of the meals people typically eat from their week.
You may have success with any of these methods of intermittent fasting for a while, but it is likely that at some point you will need to count calories because your body’s compensatory mechanisms will drive you to eat more without you realizing it.
Leangains-Style Intermittent Fasting
Leangains is a style of 16:8 intermittent fasting developed by Swedish nutritionist Martin Berkhan. It combines skipping breakfast with fluctuating calorie and macro intake — more calories and carbs are consumed on the training days; fewer calories and carbs are consumed on the rest days. Fat intake is lower on the training days, and more on the rest days.
Martin popularized the 16:8 term by telling people to eat all their food within an 8-hour window. So, Leangains preceded 16:8 I.F., which can be considered a simplification, but skipping breakfast is not exactly new.
So where does the 8-hour window come from and why is this not 7 or 9 hours?
Marketing and practicality, in my opinion. You have to give people easy-to-understand rules or they’ll screw themselves up. If I say to people, “Hey, skip breakfast and just eat two meals,” then a certain portion of people will put two meals too close together to be optimal. Six hours is the closest spacing I’d suggest, eight hours is probably a little better, but a little longer is fine.
Why did Martin choose to fluctuate calorie, carb, and fat intake?
This is an attempt at getting more favorable calorie partitioning. More calories and carbs on the training days when they can be utilized for growth and recovery, with a low fat intake to minimize the risk of any storage. The rest days just flip it, so that the balance for the week is maintained.
Does this make a difference?
Probably not. Still, I offer a pattern similar to this with clients because it breaks the monotony of dieting.
Leangains Benefits
- Meal prep is less time-consuming.
- You’re less likely to make counting mistakes.
- Fewer meals mean larger meals for the same calorie budget, which is more psychologically satisfying.
- There is a lack of hunger in the mornings after an initial adjustment phase, which is usually 5–7 days.
- People also report an increased focus in the mornings. (I am one of these people and this is when I like to get my hardest cognitive tasks for the day done.)
The majority of clients choose to do this but it is their choice, not my demand. My advice: try it, see if you like it. If not, don’t worry, you’re not missing out on anything magical.
Leangains Drawbacks
- There is a higher risk of muscle loss when dieting. The scientific literature isn’t clear on this. I can’t say I have noticed any meaningful muscle losses after coaching hundreds of clients to a shredded lean condition, but it’s important to consider I work with serious recreational lifters, not competitors looking for an edge.
- It’s likely less optimal when bulking. The scientific literature suggests that it is likely better to space meals out further.
- If you have a history of disordered eating then you probably shouldn’t be doing any form of fasting as it can be used as an excuse to legitimize your behavior.
- It’s more complicated, which can make it harder to adhere to. The increased variety across a week can improve adherence for some, but it’s also another layer of complication that can ruin adherence for others.
Refeeds, CALORIE Cycling, MACRO CYCLING, and Cheat Days
Calorie and macronutrient intake do not have to be the same each day of the week.
I will commonly incorporate these strategies into diet plans for clients, but I don’t pretend that they have as strong support in the scientific literature for improving outcomes as the other things I have discussed up until this point.
Why include them? They provide a helpful break from the monotony of dieting by introducing some variety in possible food options across the week.
Will they be beneficial beyond that? Probably not for beginners and early intermediates, possibly for those more advanced. So only implement these strategies if they help improve your adherence, not hinder it due to the added complication.
Calorie cycling And How To Implement It
Calorie cycling is the name given when different days of the week have different calorie targets.
Most people intend their diets to look like this:
But in reality, they usually look a little more like this:
I call this unintentional calorie cycling.
If you find yourself keeping to your diet during the week but struggling at the weekends, consider building more flexibility into your plan to allow that.
So for example, to maintain the daily average calorie intake, you could eat 300 calories fewer on the weekdays so that you can eat 750 calories extra on the weekends:
To do this, “borrow” 50 g of carbs and 10 g of fat from your weekdays and “lend” Saturday and Sunday 125 g of carbs and 25 g of fat each.
The most common pattern I use with clients is having them eat more on the days they train and less on those they don’t. Here’s what that looks like with a four-day training split:
I have set the macro calculator to calculate rest day calorie intake at 20% lower than the training days. I recommend avoiding fluctuations much greater than this as it will make adherence harder and likely compromise results.
Calorie Cycling Gone Wrong
Cheat days are the name given to days where people eat whatever they want. They have no place in a diet and I strongly suggest you avoid them.
The most common pattern of people screwing up their diets (or getting fat when they bulk) is staying tight during the weekdays and blowing it all on the weekend. It is perfectly possible to do this over one day as well.
Think about it like this: if you’re targeting 1 lb per week of fat loss (0.45 kg) you need a 500 kcal deficit each day. This means that over the weekdays you will have built up a 2500 kcal deficit. But if you eat (or drink) 2500 kcal extra over the weekend, you are back where you started.
Those who are perfect 6 days a week and think they can’t overdo it by eating 3000 kcal on a weekly single “cheat” day are kidding themselves also.
We can build some flexibility into our diet, but do not label these days “cheat” days.
Macro Cycling and How To Implement It
Macro cycling is the name given when different days of the week have different macros targets.
People do this with a goal to improve body composition, training effect, or performance.
An example of this would be eating more carbs and less fat on the days you train; more fat and fewer carbs on the days you don’t. I recommend you avoid extreme splits in macro intake as that could also compromise recovery and hamper adherence.
I have set the calculator to calculate the rest day fat intake 20% higher than the training days. As carbs balance the calorie budget, this means the training days have more carbs than the rest days. (See examples at the end of this section.)
What Are Refeeds?
Refeeds are the name given to days where more calories and carbs are eaten. The idea is to replenish muscle glycogen and help boost performance during cutting phases.
Some people do this every training day (like with Leangains), but when most people talk of refeeds they are referring to a once per week, carb-heavy day, which is often above caloric maintenance. Often fat intake will be limited on these days in a bid to minimize storage, though whether this has any effect is unclear.
Refeed days still have specific macro targets, but when they don’t, they are called cheat days, not refeeds, and these should be avoided for the reasons discussed.
Example Calorie, Macro Cycling, and Refeed Calculations
Note: I will purposefully spare you the math in this section. But if you wish to see the formulas used, hover or click for the calorie cycling math1 and the macro cycling math2.
Note how personal preference is the reason behind the choice for all of these examples. Also, note that in the section on macros we rounded to the nearest 5, which is why the total calorie numbers don’t exactly match.
FREDDIE’s Cut With Added Weekend Flexibility
Freddie’s daily calorie target is 1824 with the following macros: 180 g of protein, 40 g of fat, and 185 g of carbohydrate.
He decides that he wishes to sacrifice some flexibility on the weekdays so that he has a calorie buffer on the weekend. As he doesn’t want to go any lower with his fat intake, he chooses to “borrow” 40 g of carbs from his weekdays. This gives him an additional 800 kcal (40*4 kcal*5 days) to “spend” across his Saturday and Sunday. He chooses to split the 400 kcal additional budget between fats and carbs evenly, so he adds 20 g of fat and 55 g of carbs to these days.
Freddie’s weekday calorie target is 1660 with the following macros:
- Protein: 180 g
- Fat: 40 g
- Carbs: 145 g
Freddie’s weekend calorie target is 2060 with the following macros:
- Protein: 180 g
- Fat: 60 g
- Carbs: 200 g
SHREDDED SAM’S Savage COnsistency
Sam’s daily calorie target is 3107 with the following macros: 175 g of protein, 105 g of fat, and 370 g of carbohydrate.
Sam is bulking so he doesn’t feel particularly restricted and he chooses to keep his macros as they are.
Thicc Thelma’S Fat Macro Adjustment
Thelma’s daily calorie target is 1397 with the following macros: 130 g of protein, 40 g of fat, and 130 g of carbohydrate.
Thelma wants to make her life easier, not more difficult by adding a layer of complication, so she decides against calorie or macro cycling. As she prefers a little more fat in her diet, she chooses to swap 20 g of carbs for an additional 10 g of fat.
Thelma’s macros become 130 g of protein, 50 g of fat, and 110 g of carbohydrate. (Technically, this is a 10 kcal difference, but such small amounts don’t really matter.)
NATALIE’S Calorie and Macro Cycling
Natalie’s daily calorie target is 2254 with the following macros: 135 g of protein, 50 g of fat, and 315 g of carbohydrate. She wants to do both calorie and macro cycling, as she feels it will add variety in her diet each day which will make things easier to adhere to.
Natalie’s calorie target on her three strength training days is 2545 with the following macros:
- Protein: 135 g
- Fat: 45 g
- Carbs: 400 g
Natalie’s calorie target on her four non-strength training days is 2036 with the following macros:
- Protein: 135 g
- Fat: 55 g
- Carbs: 250 g
Nutrient Timing Summary Guidelines
- Avoid any extremes. Nutrient timing is about doing nothing stupid, first and foremost.
- Eat 2–3 meals when cutting, 3–4 meals when bulking.
- Don’t train completely fasted.
- Spread your meals evenly across the day.
- Spread your macros evenly across the day.
- Feel free to skip breakfast if you prefer to do so and find it easier, but don’t expect different results.
- Feel free to use calorie cycling, macro cycling, and refeeds if you feel doing so will help you adhere. But don’t expect noticeably different results.
- If you’re a physique competitor, a slightly higher meal frequency may be to your advantage, so consider it unless it will throw off your adherence.
- If you are a physique competitor, consider calorie and macro cycling unless it will throw off your adherence.
Thank you for reading. Questions welcomed in the comments.
– Andy
» Reference List
Your training day calorie intake = (Target average daily calorie intake*7)/(Number of training days per week+(Number of rest days per week)*(1-(chosen percentage calorie difference between training and rest days)/100))
Your rest day calorie intake = ((Target average daily calorie intake*7)/(Number of training days per week+(Number of rest days per week)*(1-(chosen percentage calorie difference between training and rest days)/100))))*(1-chosen percentage calorie difference between training and rest days)
Your training day fat intake = ((Target average daily fat intake*7)/(Number of rest days per week+(Number of training days per week)*(1-(chosen percentage difference between training and rest day fat intake)/100))))*(1-(chosen percentage difference between training and rest day fat intake)/100))
Your rest day fat intake = (Target average daily fat intake*7)/(Number of rest days per week+(Number of training days per week)*(1-(chosen percentage difference between training and rest day fat intake)/100)))
Please keep questions on topic, write clearly, concisely, and don't post diet calculations.
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Hi Andy, thanks for all the work you’ve put into this site. I have a question about calorie cycling, and should mention I’m female in case hormones are relevant. I’ve been looking into cycling for what might be a strange reason: on days I lift, I lift heavier fully fasted and have far less desire to eat the rest of the day after I lift. (This is true of any day on which I do a lot of physical activity, even walking: my appetite is far less than it is otherwise, as though exercise is an appetite suppressant for me.) Conversely, the day AFTER a weightlifting class, I’m ravenous and would gladly eat 15-20% more calories. Should I force equal/higher calories on workout days, or go with instinct?
Hi Alexa, thanks for the question.
Exercise can have an appetite blunting effect. This usually lasts a few hours. If you’re training in the evening, this would explain why you don’t feel like eating after. It’s probably a good idea to still have some calories from your day between your workout and bed though. This recommendation holds whether you choose to cycle calories or not.
Training vs Resting day splits. Hi Andy, I am a female, 87kg, LBW 58.5kg,approx 32% body fat. Im using the formula for the resting vs training calorie split using a 10% to 20% change and also trying to workout how to adjust my fat. My daily calorie is 1780 with protein 133g. Ive tried to use your formula but its giving me less calories on training day than it is for rest day. IM not sure if its just me or the formula is the other way around? My daily fats are 79g. Are you able to advise with a stable protein what my calorie on training days should be vs rest days as well as fats (i train 5 days a week, 2 rest days. ) Many thanks
Hi Penny, something is wrong with your calculation. Try this new calculator I’ve created.
Hi Andy Im 45 years old and would like to know if I can follow the macros that your calculator put out? I have read and heard elsewhere that when you are over 40, protein intake should be higher and that carbs need to be lower than when I was 20 or 30? according to your spreadsheet I should only have 144grams of protein and a whopping 400 in carbs
Hi Michael,
There’s some truth in what you’ve heard but it applies to people much older than 45.
Carbs: Although glucose intolerance increases with aging (older people tending to have less muscle mass than younger folk), which is accompanied by other disorders, it is possible to ameliorate this effect with the alteration of diet and exercise.
Protein: The amount of protein (the amino acid leucine, is what’s specifically been studied) required in a meal to maximize muscle protein synthesis, gradually goes up little by little as we get older (let’s say, 50 onward).
But if you’re consuming 4 meals a day or fewer, and consuming adequate total protein in the day, this won’t be relevant as the quantity in a sitting will be sufficient. This is theoretical, whether it would affect real-world outcomes is unknown.
(This research basically means that older individuals would probably find better results not following a 6 meal per day plan, as some bodybuilders still do.)
Conclusion: Just follow the guidelines in the calculator. This is not to say you couldn’t adjust to have a slightly higher protein intake, slightly higher fat intake, and reduce carb intake to compensate, should that be your preference.
Thanks for the reply. I will try to go with lower protein and higher carb. That also make room for a broader food selection 🙂
Most welcome.
Hi Andy,
I was reading through your setup guide and I have a question regarding calorie and macro cycling:
If the idea behind consuming more carbs on your training days is to have more energy available to fuel your workouts, does it still make sense to implement that if you train early in the morning on a small breakfast? (currently bulking, I eat a small solid breakfast and a pre-workout shake to keep myself from going hungry and to get some amino acids and carbs into my blood for the workout).
In this scenario, the vast majority of your carbs come after the workout that they are supposed to fuel?
Are there perhaps other potential nutrient partioning benefits to this approach?
Hi Alex,
is to have more energy available to fuel your workouts
The assumption you’ve made is understandable but incorrect. It’s to try to take advantage of a better nutrient partitioning response (less fat storage, more toward recovery and growth).
If my “training” is CrossFit 3-4x a week then per your guidelines and the article you linked, I’m not really training…can I still have effective results using these timing plans?
Consider this training.
Hi Andy, how would my meal timing look if I train at noon and then my lunch is after my workout, like 13:30? I tried to read through the comments to make sure you hadn’t answered this already but didn’t see it. I eat breakfast…I can’t go without or I get really hangry ha
Thanks for all of the great info man!
Hi Jake, thanks for the question.
If your breakfast is more than 5 hours prior to your proposed 1:30 lunchtime*, I’d have a whey shake ~30-60 minutes prior to your lunch. Otherwise, you’ll likely still have plenty of amino acids already in your bloodstream and can just have your lunch with nothing between that and breakfast.
(*or if the breakfast is quite small or contains less than ~1/3 of your protein for the day)
Hi Jake, thanks for the question.
If your breakfast is more than 5 hours prior to your proposed 1:30 lunchtime*, I’d have a whey shake ~30-60 minutes prior to your lunch. Otherwise, you’ll likely still have plenty of amino acids already in your bloodstream and can just have your lunch with nothing between that and breakfast.
(*or if the breakfast is quite small or contains less than ~1/3 of your protein for the day)
Thanks so much for the quick reply. So 30-60 min before my lunch will be during my workout, so are you saying a whey shake during my workout?
Sorry, I must have had a brain fart yesterday. I meant to say prior to your workout. Thank you for asking for clarification.
Haha no worries, thanks for the clarification, makes sense.
So then outside of that, keep the rest of the meals at about 33% cals/macros?
Yes.
Hey Andy,
I was reading through the macro meal timing frequency article and i had a question in regards to protein consumption/digestion.
For arguments sake lets say protein macros are 200g per a day. If you skip breakfast your eating roughly 65g of protein for first meal, 35g for post workout and 100g of protein for your third meal. Can your body get the benefits of that much protein in one sitting?
I have heard that 100g might be a bit much to digest. With that being said what i hear has no science backing, so just wanted to get your thoughts.
Thanks,
Jimmy
Sure, it’ll just be digested over a longer period.
Hi Andy,
Your pyramid is great, really puts priorities into perspective.
On the same note(related to meal timing), if you could choose either:
(1) A fasting window of 8-9 hours, but pushing the first meal of the day to 5-6 hours post-workout(No BCAAs), or
(2) A fasting window of 12-13 hours, but eating the first meal of the day 2-3 hours post-workout
Which one would you choose? If you were 27% body fat and cutting?
Or does it not really matter?
The latter would be better, but if you took the BCAAs then no difference. If the cost or access is the issue, take a scoop of whey protein 30-45 minutes before your workout instead.
So if I take the pre-workout(6 am workout) whey, I can push my post-workout meal to 5 hours after my workout, and consider that meal as the fast-breaker meal of the day? Thank you, yes, the cost/availability of the BCAAs is an issue.
That’s right.
Hello Again Andy,
Again a check-in for clarification as I internalize things learned so far, and I think about new issues. This time I wanted to ask about mixing feeding/training schedules.
Recently I changed from 3 days/wk afternoon training (morning fast, lunch, afternoon training, dinner), to doing this only 2 days/wk and then my 3rd day of the week doing fasted training in the morning (bcca, fasted training, bcaa, lunch dinner). I have done this mainly because i like to have fridays and saturdays “free” and the gym I go to is only open in the mornings on the weekend (also i enjoy the peace of an empty gym on Sunday with no meatheads hurling used weights across the room at the end of sets in a display of manliness). I understand what you explained to me in another topic about avoiding an “all or nothing” mindset, and am sure it applies here too… BUT i want to make sure i am taking advantage of best practices.
So my question is: does having my training/feeding approaches not the same every time cause any issues that could be impeding my progress? (ie. Would i be better off just sticking to training after lunch in afternoons every time? (adherence as an issue being removed from the equation).
Thank in advance for your continued support and advice
ciao
Hello again Toby. You’ve asked ten questions over various articles in the last couple of weeks, I’ve answered thus far, but I’m going to decline from here. Time to read between the lines for yourself bud.
🙁 fair enough
Thanks anyway
Hi Andy,
Last section you find me asking questions on today… Some questions have been touched on lightly in FAQ/previous comments, but i feel my questions are different enough that they warrant a separate look (although, you will be the judge of that).
1. You mention meal timing within a 2 hr window after training. Can i ask why the difference when dealing with BCAA’s? In your examples you have 10g of BCAA’s taken 1 hour after finishing training.
2. Going to the gym for bit now, I get tons of people trying to school me in everything. I’m sticking to my guns (or rather your guns) as best i can, but hearing things over and over to your face wears a fella down. One of the biggest things i am being hammered with is: BCAA’s MUST be taken 10 mins before EVERY workout, and 10 mins after EVERY workout to allow for optimal recovery (even if a meal comes within 2 hours of finishing). Is there any truth/benefit to this?
3. Finally, if i do take BCAA’s, does this count to your daily calories/macros?
My sincerest thanks as always for all your help
ciao
Hi Toby, thanks for the questions.
1. 10g of BCAAs are taken every two hours until a meal is had. These fasted training guidelines are separate from the meal timing recommendations when not training fasted.
2. Depends on context:
-BCAAs are not necessary unless training fasted, assuming that adequate protein is consumed in the first place. If it’s not then that issue needs to be addressed first.
– In the context of fasted training, “must” is an oversimplification, but as people are prone to screw up anything but the most simple of guidelines, I quite like it.
3. Protein is made of amino acids. BCAAs are a subset of amino acids. As with protein, 1g of BCAAs have a caloric value of 4 kcal.
Thanks very much for all you help Andy.
Much appreciated.
Just a quick sneaky addiional question:
Would you have any idea how much protein is in BCAAs (per gram, or per 10g scoop)? Its not written on the tub, and searching on the internet just links me to various trolls with varying opions getting into pissing contests…
Would like to get you take on it, because i feel like i can trust what you say. I want to count the BCAAs against my macros (protein, fats and carbs) if i can get that info.
To avoid any misunderstanding perhaps i should clarify that i am askin about grams of protein in grams of BCAA powder (just like you get lets say 75g of protein in 100g of whey etc.)
In this context, you can count it as protein, 1g = 1g.
Thanks again 🙂
Hi Andy,
I am fasting in the morning, 40% calories/macros @ lunch, training @ 17:00, 60% calories/macros at dinner (keeping the feeding and training in an 8 hour window, with dinner being within 2 hours of end of training). On rest days its the same, but with no training obviously. Mon/Wed/Fri training cycle.
However, intuitively I cant help but feel that perhaps on the rest days the lunch to dinner calorie/macro partitioning would be better suited to a 60% @ lunch and 40% @ dinner split (the exception being Sunday, which is far removed from the training done on friday). Is there any merit to this, or am I just trying to be cute and overthinking things?
You’re overthinking things. I leave the decision on whether to split things 40-60, 60-40 or anywhere in between down to client preference. So if that’s what you want to do, by all means, do it.
so generally speaking, just the daily total for calories/macross is the thing that counts?
This is the point of the nutritional hierarchy of importance Toby. The higher you go up, the less and less it counts. That is not to say it doesn’t matter. It’s all context dependent.
OK, thanks for the clarification. And all your help in general.
Most welcome Toby.
Hi Andy,
I prefer to train at night from 11 till midnight, so how would you structure the meals? I’m not too keen on having a heavy meal just before i sleep so i was wondering if there’s any solution to this dilemma of mine. Thanks in advance.
Cheers,
Milton
In which case just have a snack after your workout before bed Milton.
First off thanks for all the no-nonsense advice on here. I’ve gotten all your materials and they are great. However, there is one thing I have not been able to find neither on the site, in the material or in comments:
Have you ever had a trainee just eat once a day? I am doing something along those lines these days as I really prefer to work out fasted, and can’t work out until after work (“evening” in your terminology). Thus I end up with an eating window that is basically one long meal from, say, 19.00 to 21.00 or so. And I just keep it the same on rest days.
Any experience with this?
Thanks,
Dave
Hi Dave, thanks for the question.
No, I haven’t. That’s not because it can’t work under certain circumstances, but just because the types of client that I take on (experienced trainees, usually looking to get exceptionally lean, or gradually bulk up) will undercut their efforts by eating just one meal a day. I wouldn’t let them do it even if they suggested it.
You’ll see more on this above, possibly in the FAQ too, and I think I even had a whole article on it a while back.
Edit: Yes, just remembered. It was called, “If it ain’t broken…“
Hi Andy, how does the caloric and macro cycling scheme works for those who train 5-6 days per week?
Hi Lukas. You wouldn’t set it up as laid out above, instead, consider having one or two higher carb days in your week.
Hi Andy – Before my two questions, just want to compliment the macro spreadsheet you provided. It’s been tremendously helpful to me.
1. On “the complete guide to setting up your diet”, you said to eat “Within two hours of finishing your training”, but in the “early morning, breakfast-skipping example”, you have the client train from 7am – 8am, take BCAA’s every two hours, and then eat at 1pm. So do BCAA’s count as eating within two hours of your training, then?
2. When eating within two hours after training, do we count from the time we start, or the time we finish? On the “morning training, breakfast example” you have the client 9-10 and then he doesn’t eat lunch til 1pm. Isn’t that a 3-4 hour wait?
Huge fan, just a bit confused. Thanks!
Hi Nathan, thanks for the questions. I think you just missed the sentence in the “Nutrient Timing – When Should I Eat?” section which has the following:
‘Not completely fasted’ refers to training carried out in the state where there have been one or more meals consumed earlier in the day. BCAA consumption immediately prior to ‘training’ counts as not completely fasted and is a viable option.
Whoops! Clearly I did. Thanks!
No worries, happens all the time.
Hello Andy! Hope you are well Buddy. I’m preparing for a bodybuilding competition and it will be great if you could help me with my confusions 🙂
1) Read the section to skip or not to skip the breakfast, I enjoy skipping breakfast and have my breakfast around 1.30 and train fasted with bcaa’s pre and post workout and every 2 hours if delaying breakfast further. My body fat is somewhere around 10
% atm.I have read somewhere that there are lots of benefits of fasting like increased GH Hormone etc.I want to continue fasting even when I’m getting down to 5%.Is it possible to fast and keep muscle mass while getting ripped?
2) So its 10gm bcaa pre and post.I don’t want to use xtend,too expensive for me. If i am using pills it says 500mgL- Leucine,250mg L-Isoleucine and 250mg L-Valine per 2 pills so this means 10gm bcaas in total, right? I shpuld be taking 2 pills pre and post.
Appreciate your advice and keep up the good work.
Hi Andrew, thanks for the questions.
1. Just reread the section, “Should I skip breakfast or not?” You’re trying to pin me into a black and white answer but there are only shades of grey, nothing more to say there than what I have written there really. Forget about GH. I know what you’ve likely read, we can’t manipulate GH to any meaningful amount without drugs.
2. No, that’s 1 gram. 1000 mg = 1g. That’s why those pills appear cheaper, you screwed up the math.
Thanks Andy for clarification. I train fasted every morning because i can life better while fasting and much easy to prepare my food for the day. Are bcaa’s really necessary pre and post?Can i just train without them and break my fast at normal time i.e 2 hours after training
Do you have to bulk using the 16/8 fasting?
So far I know you have to fallow the 16/8 for cutti ng but what about bulking. Do i have to follow it to see the any changes?
Gaddiel, thanks for the question. No, there is no need to do it. Have a good re-read of the section on skipping breakfast, that will help with any confusion.
What do you think about one meal by day (fasting 24 hours) following your rules about macros and calories?
Hi Mike. Covered here.
Thank you Andy ! =) You are a rock star ! =)
😉
Hi
I notice you eat after training.
I train late at night and sometimes don’t feel like eating, if I’m hitting my macros before training is this ok?
Hi Stephen, it’s far from ideal, but remember, this whole series of articles is an order of importance – the more advanced you become, the more important these things become. If you’re a novice or early intermediate trainee then this isn’t likely to hold you back. Forcing yourself to do something you can’t sustain however certainly will.
Hope that helps!
Hi Andy,
Unbelievably useful guide and i appreciate you putting it together.
1. My question is what calorie intake figure do you determine the calorie spit on.
For instance if i my TDEE was 2,700 is that the figure i do the split on? Or if i was looking to bulk and and my new calorie intake was 3000 is that the figure i do split on?
2.To touch on a comment i read earlier, eating 450g of carbs is tough for me trying to get it all from Brown Rice, potato etc, are fruit juices acceptable even though they lack the fibre and have a higher sugar content?
3. Is the splitting calories/macros etc only for the IF or can you spread this out across the entire day for similar if not optimum results?
I really any advice you can give.
Thanks
Adam 🙂
Hi Adam, glad you’re finding it useful and thanks for the questions:
1. No. You split the calorie intake based around the calculation of appropriate average daily energy intake you made in part 1.
2. Yes, absolutely fine in this context.
3. IF is about meal frequency, cycling calories and macros is not related but they can be used in conjunction. “…for similar if not optimum results?” – See the pros and cons in the section on “to skip breakfast or not.”
Hi Andy, thanks for your quick response.
Can i clarify your answer on Q1: you said “You split the calorie intake based around the calculation of appropriate average daily energy intake you made in part 1”
Is the “appropriate average daily energy intake” the same figure as my TDEE (i.e maintenance) =2700cals or is it my TDEE +~300cals (i.e bulk) = ~3000cals.
I’m hoping for the former as the thought of consuming near 600g carbs is making me question my manhood.
On that note do you have any tips on how to intake a large amount of carbs without resorting to gaining shakes?
Also on Q2. what context would it not be okay?
Thanks again in advance.
Adam
Sure thing:
1. The latter. Think about it, if you go with just TDEE then you alter the entire weekly energy balance that you calculated. / Yes, in the FAQ. “Too full.”
2. For someone who is on the tail end of a diet, their carb intake is likely to be low, and hunger an issue. In this situation you’d want to go with the most filling foods possible that you can to fit your macro budget. So liquids aren’t a good idea in this case, potatoes are probably the most filling. (You’ll read about that in that FAQ I pointed you to.)