“Time is your most precious gift because you only have a set amount of it. You can make more money, but you can’t make more time. When you give someone your time, you are giving them a portion of your life that you’ll never get back.”
I don’t have a problem with cardio, just wasted time. For those that enjoy cardio then this is time well spent; everyone has their own preferences, live and let live. Let’s not pretend though that most people aren’t solely doing cardio for cutting (because they wish to lose fat).
Cardio as a tool for fat loss is over-rated, over-used, and overall a very poor time investment for the IF user. Most people that ask me questions about cardio understand this, however, there is confusion as to at what point cardio becomes necessary to get leaner.
Scott, Jeff, and Phil pictured above did not use cardio to get into their shredded condition. I told them that they wouldn’t need it to get to a body-fat level they would be satisfied with. I suggest to you that the answer is likely the same. In my opinion, the vast majority of people give up on diet manipulation alone as a means of achieving their ideal physique way too early.
At What Point Do You Need Cardio?
Intermittent Fasting (particularly the Leangains type where people skip breakfast) can perhaps enable us to get to leaner than with other diet methods through diet manipulation alone. This is due to the following factors:
- The increased ease at creating a calorie deficit through an increase in satiety and better hunger control.
- The increased potential to get to stubborn fat.
This article focuses on the latter point, though I must add that it is hypothetical, with little clinical research to support it at present. This will be enough for most people, however, there is a limit to how far you can take it no matter how skillful you are at manipulating your diet; the reason is stubborn body fat.
What Is Stubborn Body Fat?
Stubborn body fat is physiologically different from other fat in your body and this makes the removal of it difficult. Typically stubborn fat is found in the lower abs, back, and glutes in men; thighs, glutes, and hips in women.
What Makes Stubborn Fat Stubborn?
There is a theoretical limit on how much fat can be oxidized (burned) before the body will fuel itself by breaking down muscle mass. Fatter individuals can afford a greater deficit before this happens than leaner individuals because the body uses fuels in the ratio they are available. – Fat people clearly have their pantry stocked with a lot of butter, a little meat; shredded people with just a little butter, a lot of meat.
For fat loss three things need to happen:
- Lipolysis: Fat needs to be broken down into free fatty acids (FFAs) and released from the fat cell into the blood stream.
- Transport: The FFAs need to be transported through the blood to somewhere where they can be used for fuel.
- Oxidation: Tissues somewhere in the body need to pluck these FFAs from the blood stream and use them for energy.
When getting really lean (assuming a calorie deficit) the body has only muscle or the stubborn fat reserves left to fuel itself on. Due to the physiological differences of stubborn fat, both 1 and 2 are particularly tough to achieve. So though a calorie deficit may be present and the body ready to use the free fatty acids as energy (step 3), if they aren’t in the blood stream around those tissues, they can’t be used, and the body will break down muscle tissue to fuel itself. Clearly, you want to avoid this situation.
How Intermittent Fasting Can Help With Lipolysis
Unfavourable (for physique purposes) alpha/beta receptor ratio differences in the stubborn fat areas of the body are what makes it difficult for lipolysis to take place. To keep it simple, let’s just say that the morning fasting, by increasing catecholamine output and lowering insulin in the blood stream, creates circumstances which help to get around the receptor issues to allow the fat to escape the fat cells.
How Cardio Helps With Transport (by getting more blood flow to the right areas)
Before your eyes glaze over with the science please stand up and drop your pants. Take your right palm and slide it onto your right arse cheek. Is it cold? Relatively colder I bet. That’s because the blood flow to your glutes and other stubborn-fat areas is poorer. This matters because even if you overcome the problems associated releasing the FFAs (fat) into the blood stream if there isn’t sufficient enough blood flow to carry them elsewhere to be burned then they will just be reabsorbed into the fat cell.
- Cardio can increase blood flow to these areas, which is one reason why you may have heard nutritionist Martin Berkhan recommend fasted walking on non-training days.
- Yohimbine HCL can increase blood flow to these areas, which is why you may have heard that recommended also, but it would be a waste of money to take it before you get to the stubborn fat stage. (Incidentally it’s banned in many countries, not because of people taking it for stubborn fat loss, but because of idiots mega-dosing with it to boost erections.)
The Risks: IF can make it easier to burn stubborn fat, but increases the risk of muscle loss.
(Note: this is only really relevant when looking to get to exceptionally lean levels of body fat like you see above. – As long as you have your calorie intake and macros set up right)
It would be remiss of me to not mention this: The leaner we get, the greater the potential for muscle loss with a reduced meal frequency. It’s important to put this in perspective and weigh up the pros and cons.
If you eat a greater meal frequency and spread your meals further across the day instead of skipping breakfast, your risk of muscle mass losses will be minimized, but you add in more complication to your diet. – Meal preparation takes more time, macro counting is incrementally harder, and you likely have to add in cardio sooner to get shredded lean. (i.e. If you skip breakfast you might be able to get to 7% body fat without cardio, but if you eat breakfast you might only be able to get to 9%.)
How much of a risk is it to skip breakfast?
This depends. The greater the calorie deficit and the leaner you are, the greater the risk of muscle loss. But if you take things slow and steady then the risk is small. I’ve coached over 1000 people with the majority of them choosing to skip breakfast and I can’t say I have noticed it causing any significant lean tissue losses. The clients you see in the top picture skipped breakfast, ate twice a day, and did not use any cardio to get into that condition.
However, it’s important to consider that they were recreational trainees without a deadline, not professional or serious amateur competitors looking to get any potential possible edge over the competition. The calorie deficits were moderate, training intensity was kept high, protein intake was kept high, and BCAAs or whey protein were used in cases where they trained fasted. (My guide to setting this all up here.) Yes, a protein shake will break your fast but I would argue that this is less important.
In the case of a top-tier bodybuilder, it would be better to go with the more conservative approach and have a higher meal frequency (assuming they had the time and will to do it). Also, if someone is in a rush to get into stage-ready condition and so the deficit they need to have is greater than what would be most conservative for muscle mass retention, a greater meal frequency should be considered.
I’d add further that anyone convinced that they will lose muscle mass by fasting would be best to not fast. – The mind has a powerful effect on the body and this could indirectly cause muscle mass losses via increased stress and poorer training.
What if muscle mass is lost?
Outside of competing, it won’t really matter as you’ll gain it all back again quickly when you move into maintenance calorie circumstances after your cut. This is due to good old myonuclear domain theory.
Summary & Further Reading
Don’t kid yourself about what stubborn body fat is. Too often people at 15% cry about “stubborn body fat” when they are nowhere near that point yet. Due to genetic differences, some folks seem to have more stubborn fat than others. If we say that the above three guys are at around 7%, even if you’re on the unlucky end of that genetic difference you should be able to get to 10% before running into issues. This will still be good enough for a good set of abs, at the very least a well-defined 4 pack.
– Think before you give a portion of your life to a treadmill. –
If you’re interested in practical guidelines on how to set up your diet so that you don’t fall foul of any of these mistakes then you can get my complete set-up guide here. (This is the most viewed page on the site.)
*******
Thanks for reading. Questions welcomed in the comments as always. – Andy.
⠀
This site is my revenge. 
⠀
Since 2011, I’ve written guides explaining how we get results to help readers avoid the same path of frustration. We’ve helped over 2,000 busy working guys transform their bodies WITHOUT supplements, fad diets, or the process dominating their lives.
⠀
Enter your email address in the box at the bottom of this page and I'd be honored to show you how.
Privacy policy.
I want to lose 55 lbs. I have been cycling through 36-hour fasts followed by a 12-hour eating window. I eat 220 protein/150 fat/60 carbs. I do two days of full body strength training for 75 min. and two days of steady state cardio for 30 min. Do you recommend sticking with the 36-hour fasts or should I stick to 16:8? Thanks.
Hi Telly,
I’d recommend 16:8 (skipping breakfast), if that suits you. The former isn’t sustainable.
Hello again Andy,
I've read this article and I have one question.
You may remember I read also Precision Nutrition's website, and I read one of their articles where they say that doing some cardio after weight training is actually helpful…
I'm linking 2 images, do you mind letting me know your opinion?
Thank you
Hi George, please type your questions directly rather than linking to something and asking for general thoughts.
Sorry Andy,
I'll be more clear and concise this time:
I've read (on another website, as per previous message) that adding some high intensity training to the weight lifting workouts both improves fat loss while not impacting much the muscle building process.
In particular it seems that adding cardio right after weight lifting might be better than doing it alone, by itself.
What do you think? Do you see any reason for doing so?
Thank you and happy holidays!
No. Feel free to do your cardio whenever you like, if at all.
https://rippedbody.com/cardio-for-fat-loss/
Regards Andy,
I've been thinking about doing some HIIT not for fat loss purposes but because I'd like to get a "high performing" body, other than a "good looking" one…
In such a case, not being interested in fat loss but in maintaining as much muscle mass as possible, do you think it would be helpful to do some HIIT? If so, would it be OK to do it on the rest days between weight lifting sessions?
Also, would you consider walking (at a medium/slow pace) a low-intensity cardio? And what about fasted walking also on training days (NOT only on non-training days)? Any issue with it?
Thank you as always
The best way to maintain muscle is to strength train, don't lose weight too fast for your level of body fat, and eat an adequate amount of protein.
If you are not looking to lose weight (you will be at caloric maintenance), as you said in a comment on another article, you can get away with training a little less and consuming a little less protein. (I can't put numbers on that, you'll have to experiment.)
If you wish to improve your heart health and cardiovascular and respiratory conditioning, do cardio, and do the type that best matches what you will do in your life/hobbies. Feel free to do this whenever is convenient for you, as long as it doesn't compromise strength training quality.
In summary: do cardio for cardio; strength train for muscle gain/maintenance. Don't confuse the two.
Very clear, and pretty straightforward after all. Appreciate your feedback, as always
Most welcome.
Good information. Just wanted to add, it’s best to avoid daily calorie restriction and opt for alternate day fasting, as this form of IF is safer on muscles. Daily calorie restriction scares the thyroid > BMR lowers > muscle begins to break down as more metabolically active and fat loss slows > person tries to circumvent plateau with deeper calorie restriction > > vicious cycle.
But ADF doesn’t give the thyroid much time to panic as the next day you’ll be eating a full day of food and hopefully good protein; even a small surplus is fine if the food is clean. As not eating the next 24-36hrs will still put you into a overall deficit, just without such muscle loss. Studies have shown calorie restricted diet loses 4x more muscle mass than not eating all day (or ADF) probably as not only does the BMR not lower causing plateau, but 95% of protein from what I remember is recycled at the end of digestion during a longer fasted state.
Cardio can be used this way without such fear of muscle loss, it’s helpful to mix it with weight training on feeding days as this will negate muscle loss overall. Never do HIIT on a fast day, I’ve made this mistake in the past, low intensity always. So no insulin present and not lowering your metabolism by daily calorie restriction is what I’ve learned to be effective (cardio & weights are helpful bonus during this). Just wanted to give my 2 cents on what I’ve found from lots of research/trial & error
Fanciful nonsense.
Which part? Please elaborate. Scientific research and physical results don’t seem quite fanciful nonsense. But outright refuting something that is part of human biology (how insulin works), surely is.
Hi Andy. Thanks for the great content. I’ve purchased both of your Muscle and Strength books for training and nutrition and have found them very helpful.
I’ve started IF 8 pm – 12 pm and strength training in the morning at about 6:00. I’m also in a 400 calorie deficit, at about what I think is 15 body fat. I haven’t seen a drop off in strength after roughly a month since I started IF. What I am unsure of is if training fasted and not eating for 6 hours after training, in a deficit, is detrimental long term from a muscle retention standpoint. Seems there are varying opinions “the anabolic window”… I’d appreciate any advice you have.
Nathan
Hi Nathan, thank you for getting the books and for the question.
For this specific training and meal-timing combo, I’d have a scoop of whey prior to your training and then a couple of hours after. This is what the majority of clients have done over the years (myself included). I’ll let the results speak for themselves.
More on meal frequency and timing here: A Nutrient Timing Guide To Maximize Fat Loss and Muscle Growth
Hi Andy – I’ve used IF on and off for a couple of years and have had good results. I’m curious if you see a difference in results depending on when someone fasts. For instance, I had noticeably better results when I would workout fasted from 6am-7am, and then had my feeding window from 730am-330pm, than I have working out from 12pm-1pm, and having my feeding window from 130pm-930pm. Going to bed on an empty stomach and waking up fasted and working out is a more difficult approach I would assume, but the results were significant. I was much leaner, but arguably had less strength and had some muscle loss. Both instances I would keep the same macros. Is there any science to this?
Hi Scott,
Can’t say I have worked with many people who have had such an early feeding window, as it prohibits dinner with family or friends, and is quite antisocial in most societies/communities. However, that aside, if the macros are the same, the only way there would be much difference is if you find your workout performance significantly impaired and so you lost muscle mass.
Therefore, when you say, “I was much leaner” then I suspect the calorie intake wasn’t the same between the two conditions, as you thought. Which would make sense given the restriction from eating at the time people typically eat most.
More on this topic here: A Nutrient Timing Guide To Maximize Fat Loss and Muscle Growth
Hi Andy, you did a great job writing this. I’m into intermittent fasting for fat loss and was wondering what you think about this blog? If you could give me your thoughts, I would appreciate it! [deleted]
Hi Sharani,
Please see the second item on the FAQ page.
I have been doing intermittent fasting for several months and have had about 20 pounds of weight loss. In the past few weeks I have started doing high intensity interval cardio for 35 minutes with 25 pushups on every five minute interval, IN THE morning in the middle of the fast period. I am wanting to incorporate strength training in the afternoon in the middle of the feast period, will I need to take an supplements with this pattern?
Hi Jason, thank you for the question.
While technically, yes, it would be a good idea to take a protein shake as you are going to strength train via the pushups in the morning, to focus in on this point would be to miss the forest for the trees.
What are you trying to achieve? Lose fat, build muscle, am I right? In which case, ditch the HIIT, ditch the pushups, focus on the strength training and get your diet in check.
Start here:
• How to Choose the Right Training Program
• The Complete Nutrition Setup Guide
Hi Andy,
I’m starting IF right now and want to make sure I’m not hurting my own progress with my activities. I generally workout first thing in the morning, 5 AM in a fasted state. Workouts for me are largely cardio; running and boot camp style with the occasional sandbag workout.
My goal is more towards functional fitness than competition body, but I have a ton of body fat to drop still.
Currently, I get about 1.5 hours workout time in the morning and start eating at noon. I’m not taking any BCAAs or anything other than water before noon.
I am following your calculations for macros, but am not generally reaching any of the targets in a day.
Stop eating at between 7-8pm
Thanks!
Hi Rob,
You’d be completely fine to do this but in honestly, based on your comment, “but I have a ton of body fat to drop still” the fastest way to a ‘functional body’ is to drop the fat off and get stronger, which is what the guides on the site show you how to do.
Think about it this way, do you perform best when you’re carrying a 50 lb rucksack of without it?
Same thing for body fat. Unfattening yourself should be the priority and it’s not cardio that’s going to get you there, this just feels better in the short-term because the adaptations are more noticeable.
Start strength training (if you can — see the guides on the site) and focus on your diet.
Hi Andy,
I have been cutting for 3-4 months, and my abs are visible (very defined 4 pack, and decent enough 6 pack). However, I still feel like my lower back is loaded with fat. According to my planning, I should start my slow bulk phase, but I am not satisfied with my lower back fat. What do you recommend?
Hi Alexandre,
The lower back is one of the last places for it to go. If you want to lose the lower back fat you need to keep cutting.
Hi Andy, I’ve been reading carefuly all your articles during the past 3 weeks, while I was on holidays and preparing all in my mind and agenda to start with IF as soon as I got back home…
I’m 39 years old male, fit (I would say) but not lean… Just got out of an hypercaloric diet right before the holidays started, as I was getting fat even though my whole training was quite intense…
Will not extend my topic too much… Just to comment that I decreased my calories intake during the holidays, almost no cardio, just weight lifting and I lost fat in a matter of 2 weeks…
In my normal life, I do weight lifting 4 times a week, and practice Muay Thai (can be compared with a HIIT easy) 2 times per week and BJJ (not so much cardio, but still a demanding activity) 3 times per week, sometimes 4…
Trying to rest at least 2 days per week…
As I do the martial arts usually in the morning and the lifting in the late noon/evening, I was quite sure about the BCAA’s intake for my early trainings after read your articles, but I read somewhere here that you recommend to only intake BCAA in case of weight lift training only…
So, how do you see to perform this activies (Muay Thai and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu) fasted and then start eating around lunch time? No BCAA’s ?
Thanks in advance.
It’s fine to do your Muay Thai and BJJ training fasted as long as you feel fine doing that. No real need for BCAAs like with the strength training as the risk of muscle breakdown is less.
Thanks for the quick and precise answer Andy.
Most welcome.
[…] For more, see the article, ‘When is Cardio a Valid Tool for Fat Loss with Intermittent Fasting?‘. […]
[…] Cardio Rules for I.F. […]
I enjoy doing HIIT cardio 2 or 3 times a week as well as lifting heavy in a progressive overload style 4 days a week(1 meal before training set up..cardio is done in the AM). My question is..do I need to recover from the HIIT sessions any differently..or BCAAs on those days?
Hi Justin, thanks for the question. BCAA supplementation is only necessary with fasted strength training.
Hey Andy,
First and foremost I love the site. I’ve read your articles roughly every day for the past two weeks and I’m finding it easier than ever to maintain proper eating and training habits.
I’m currently in the hiring process to become a fire fighter and I need to keep my cardio up for fire academy once I’m hired. I’m currently doing HIIT spring sessions for 20 min (including a 2 min warm up and cool down light jog) twice a week and a moderate intensity stair climbing session for 20 min once a week. I am also doing a 5×5 training program where I only do compound lifts 3 times a week. I’m roughly 25-30% body fat. I currently have my calorie deficit set up for a 1-1.5 lb of fat loss per week and have two questions:
1) Should I increase calorie consumption to create a buffer for the cardio? I’m trying to minimize muscle loss due to burning more calories.
2) Since I have to do cardio would you recommend doing it before or after my resistance training? My goal is to increase strength and muscle mass > cardio.
Thanks for your help,
Josh
Hi Josh, thanks for the question. I’ve helped a two people pass their fitness tests specifically to become firefighters.
1. Yes. This will be factored into your calorie calculation via the activity multiplier. If you didn’t do this, keep with what you have, guess at the calorie expenditure for this, and roughly that amount of carbs into your diet on that day.
My goal is to increase strength and muscle mass > cardio.
2. Then do your cardio at a time of day and week that it least impacts the strength training. Preferably separate then rather than doing them back to back, but if you have to then do the cardio after.
Great! Thanks for the reply, Andy!
Good content as always.
I’m thinking of doing at least moderate cardio just to increase the calorie intake on a cut, this so that I can increase my carbs intake.
Otherwise, with all the other parameters considered, the carbs intake will be at levels that are both hard to adhere to and unpleasant. (I know some people think low carbs diets are the greatest thing ever, I’ve just never been able to handle it well)
Does increasing carbs intake seem like a valid reason to add cardio exercise on rest days?
Hi Sebastian, thanks for the question.
If you wish to maintain your calorie balance, and you are going to do cardio, then you will need to increase calories to account for that. You can do that by increasing carbs, yes.
If you wish to add cardio instead of making a calorie reduction to create the necessary deficit, so that you can keep progressing while eating a higher carb amount each day, also yes, you can.
Hi Andy,
(I live in Holland and my English is not my best… but I will try)
I have downloaded you’re diet guideline to setting up my diet. On the first place I’m very thankful for you’re effort in the guideline. Already noticing progress. Only now I see that my skin at my abs area is becoming some lose skin, do you have any suggesting’s for that issue?
My second question is concerning chapter 4 and then especially page 46 at the top “Despite this you’ll find some fancy ideas out there such as: only eat fats and protein earlier in the day, and only carbs and protein later. – This is not likely to have any nutrient partitioning benefits, and will threaten adherence by making your diet more complicated and restrictive”.
Question: referring to Carb Backloading, isn’t there a benefit to eat about 30 grams carbs throughout the day and then after exercising the rest of the daily macro’s (carbs) ? I’m curious what’s you’re opinion about this is?
This come to my third question is: after calculating my daily macro’s with the help of you’re excel sheet.
[DELETED by Andy as per comment rules]
On my training days I’m leaning to eat about 30 grams of carbs and then de rest of the Carbs approximately 200 grams after my training. But then I’m really have a full belly and a inflated feeling in my stomach. Do you think it is sensible to eat according this Carb Backloading principles ?
Sorry for my last question: what’s you opinion about reverse dieting when you have completed you’re goal in cutting en want to go for bulking? First 2 weeks after cutting calculating for maintenance and then bulking or…..?
thanks!!!
Greetzzz
Joram Kalsbeek
The Netherlands
Hi Joran, thanks for the questions.
Only now I see that my skin at my abs area is becoming some lose skin, do you have any suggesting’s for that issue?
– In all but the most extreme cases it’s just a matter of patience, it will come tight over time.
…isn’t there a benefit to eat about 30 grams carbs throughout the day and then after exercising the rest of the daily macro’s (carbs)?
– No. This is an invented proposition from a man trying to sell you an ebook/dream. Have another look at the timing section of the complete guide, I have it covered there.
Do you think it is sensible to eat according this Carb Backloading principles?
– No. Stuffing yourself in one meal when you’re already feeling too full and uncomfortable is exactly the opposite of what you need right now. Consider spreading your carb intake out a little more. See the FAQ, section “too full”.
what’s you opinion about reverse dieting when you have completed you’re goal in cutting en want to go for bulking?
– Check out my guide to coming back to maintenance here:
• How Do I Find Maintenance Calorie Intake After Dieting?
Hi Andy,
I’ve been following your guides for a few months and I’m pleased with the results. My only concern actually is that I’m stuck at 10-11% BF for several weeks. I did a diet break but it didn’t seem to work, still stuck.
I’m on a solid training routine and I have good control of my calories and macros so I believe I’m limited by stress and maybe poor quality sleep (2 children). I’m sleeping an average of 7hrs/day. Is there any simple test that allow me to measure my stress level or even estimate if I’m sleeping enough?
Thanks.
Leonardo
Hi Leonardo, thanks for the questions.
Is there any simple test that allow me to measure my stress level or even estimate if I’m sleeping enough?
For the former, no. For the latter, can you wake without an alarm clock? Do you feel exceptionally tired in the mornings? If you have to ask then you’re probably not getting enough.
I’m stuck at 10-11% BF for several weeks.
This is something of a red flag. – How do you know? Suggests you might not be tracking as I advise. Avoid trying to measure body fat percentage, focus on detailed body measurements and scale weight changes. Guide here.
Hi bro, really need your advice here..i’m on bulking mode for past 4 months.gain around 10kg so far..was doing 3-day split push/pull programme..doing calorie counting on my own. The prob is my stubborn fat around my belly still there and my stomach getting bloated/bigger while other body parts can c improvement. Is this norm or what? Care to advice?
Thanks in advance
Care to advice?
No.
Andy, first thanks for this wealth of information. My question is that I’m confused about how to track my exercise with regard to MyFitnessPal: specifically, do I add the calories burned from my cycling rides or not? I typically burn between 500 calories on a short ride and up to 1500 on longer ones. I’m training for endurance rides.
First, I found my TDEE. Then I used your calculator and guide. I did factor in about 67 minutes of exercise per day, 6 days a week using your calculator. That’s three days of lifting and 3 days of cycling. So it seems to me that I wouldn’t want to enter any calories burned into MyFitnessPal because they’ve already been accounted for in your calculator. Would that be correct?
If I should enter those calories burned (from my garmin) then would I need to replace them?
Hi Peter, correct. If you then enter in your Garmin data you’ll be counting the calories twice and will overeat. If you wish to use the Garmin data, set the activity multiplier without your cycling.
Thanks for the response Andy,
But would you say from experience that the only way to get that lean without needing cardio is only if you use the “Leangains” approach which utilizes fasting and calorie cycling? Or can you get there by just simply counting macros with the daily calorie deficit staying the same without cycling calories, without fasting, and without cardio and still get that lean?
No, reread what I said. Don’t put words in my mouth.